Creating Chase – Bad Dog Agility Academy

Creating Chase

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  • says:

    How do I get a toy drive/chase in my older dog?(almost 3) she’s scared of the heavy flirt poles. She loves to chase squirrels, so I know she’s got some “chase” in her.

  • Sri Kothur (& Abbey) says:

    Major decision:
    I would appreciate having answers these questions before I start my 2nd session of doing this outside with a restrained (on leash with a human) puppy.

    1) Is having the leash on her a safety hazard (6 ft long)?

    2) How far away should I be? What are we looking for? I was about 15 feet ahead at release and I couldn’t get very far before she caught us and passed me. I did 3 reps and I perceived her running to my left was a success.

    The danger started when she was released to be on my right (toy in left hand) side, the first time as commonly seen she went on to my left and I pulled the toy just before she got it?

    3) Should I have withheld reward?

    On the 2nd rep she went at my legs and almost cut me down (if I hadn’t kept balance at the last second, she would have taken me out). The only reason I kept my balance was because of how close she came to knocking me down on the previous rep. I did not let her have the toy.

    On the 6th through 8th reps I started extremely close to her (6-10 feet). She successfully got the toy these times while being on my right. I did not move quickly and she got it.

    4) Will I get injured by a 20 lb dog that has no qualms about running through my legs? What does this say about her? She recklessly runs at things like doors as well. It’s usually during a zoom, but not always, and it seems extremely dangerous to jump at seemingly full speed at a door handle them racing to another door handle like 25 feet away and doing the same thing.

    Maybe only now I am realizing what forging really means here. We actually want them going ahead! I literally don’t think I have seen the word “forging” used on its own. Foraging, sure. Hilariously, that’s how I interpreted it the first time (had watched a lot of treat finding videos) I read it. Then I figured it meant to forge ahead. Still, isn’t it strange I have never seen forging without being followed by “ahead”??? The ahead is a given. Hahaha, my brain could not comprehend it.

    5) So do we actually want them going ahead of us to get the toy? Even if that means it is no longer a straight line?

    6) Do we not want the toy to be still be right when them make contact and grasp? That would mean not forging as hard since they slowed down enough to grasp it. If the answer is no, I’m glad I caught this possibility before the 2nd day.

    7) Does all this mean I want to only reward when the toy is in front?

    8) Do I actually want overrunning followed by a cut back to the get to the toy? Even if the cut back is really wide?

    • Sarah Fernandezlopez says:

      Is there a video as well?

    • Sarah Fernandezlopez says:

      Ok – so I’m going to give my point of view. I do not think that using the opposite arm and pulling them in front is critical. And if it’s causing problems, then I would just treat this as a drive building exercise where you run and the puppy chases and they “catch” the reward. In this case, I would just run and drag the toy from the DOG SIDE arm.

      On to your questions
      1) leash: I would say not safe if you’re bring her in front of you, but fine if you’re just having her run to the toy in the dog side arm and you stop running and play with her once she “catches” it.
      2) I would do variable distances. At least 15′, but if space allows, some longer ones like 30′, etc.
      3) Generally when I do this, it is a drive building exercise, so the dog is basically being lured by the toy. I start by dragging the toy almost immediately, then I just run, but I drop the toy and drag it as they are halfway to me. Then I run but I only let them see the toy when they’ve almost caught me. Basically building up their drive to “run when I run”.
      4) Some dogs have very little self preservation. I would be on high alert with her (I have to be with my Mal as well) because she may go through you rather than around if you’re in her way. She’ll probably get better with maturity, but I would be very conscious of always having GOOD, TIMELY information for her and don’t try for things like blinds unless you’re quite sure of your timing.
      5) As I said, I stop running once they’ve caught the toy. Of course, Shape Up’s exercise is a little different than what I do for building drive, but I think in the end, both accomplish similar goals.
      6) I make them catch it in motion. Catch as in “I caught you!” not catch as in “here, catch”.
      7) For me, I’m fine with the side.
      8) For me, if they over run and come back that’s fine. There is a natural consequence there of delayed reward. So they SHOULD work to outrun less if they really want the toy you have.

      • Sri Kothur (& Abbey) says:

        Excellent, thank you! I’ll video once I’ve done it a few times accounting for what you have explained.

        In particular, thanks for the info on some dogs having a lack of self-preservation. (BTW Energy is a brilliant name for a Mal in the Houston area. So many meanings! NRG for one.) I thought I may have been overly cautious about her physicality when running. I’m probably appropriately concerned.

  • Pam Moore says:

    My first attempt at Module 2 Flatwork L1 Creating Chase. Enkidu seemed to lose interest pretty quickly and sometimes wouldn’t engage with the toy (which he had been tugging furiously with before this lesson). Advice appreciated.

    • Sarah Fernandezlopez says:

      Hmm – my best guess here is that there is a little stress or “pressure” caused by this setup. I think he’s not sure he’s allowed to get it. This is supported by the fact that he did much better when you then dropped the edge of the toy so it looked more like the other “chase” video.

      Ultimately, we wean off the toy anyway, so I wonder if he’s kindof “past” the exercise. If you have a holder and run away and then they release him, will he run to catch up and come to your side?

      I would try delaying showing the toy a bit, and then once you do show it, go ahead and drop and drag. The purpose here is creating the drive to catch up to you when you’re ahead.

  • Kathy McClung says:

    This is Bazinga’s first submission! She is 24 weeks (5 months). I am so excited about the Shape Up Pup lessons – thank you for these!
    We have been working on this, but this is the first time I videoed it. She is BOUNCY. Maybe I need to lower the toy as I’m running? Thanks for the feedback!

  • says:
    Flera surprised me! She was liking this game. Thanks for keeping me accountable Jenn.
    Chai wasn’t interested in tugging today, we tried different toys, but she still has a baby K9 that may be bothering her. So we switched to a ball 😬 She lost a bit of interest so we switched to food and did some shaping with balance disk/ platform.

  • says:

    Why encourage forging?

    • Sarah Fernandezlopez says:

      Per Jennifer: “This came up in the seminar she did at my place. People have a big problem with rewarding in front of them for fear it will encourage the dog to cut the handler off. If I recall, it is more about training the dog to always strive to be ahead of the handler and not to think the end goal is in heel position. The circle work should balance out the idea that the dog can cut in the front of the handler. We don’t want a dog who runs the handlers speed but rather one who tries to overtake the handlers speed.”

  • says:

    So, I have new 10-week-old Corgi puppy. Need to work this on both sides–he seems, after 4 days, to prefer the left.(With my previous guy I did this differently–I switched hands while running ahead of him so he came to either side. He had great blind crosses.)

  • says:

    This is Poca and my first attempt at posting a video….

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