Nested Challenge Sequence – Bad Dog Agility Academy

Nested Challenge Sequence

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  • Sharon says:
    August 18, 2021 at 3:42 pm

    Here is my video of Challenge sequence 5. I have one video of my Chihuahua, Sparky for some feed back. The other 3 are Toby. We found this sequence very challenging probably because I haven’t really worked much on threadles , backsides on the run, or blind crosses before. We had several failures which, I think, made Toby slow down even more than usual in practice. His slower speed is probably the only reason I did manage to get him through the sequence. Although on the last sequence of this video , he stopped in front of jump 6. I guess he wasn’t committed to the jump yet, before I turned my feet. At a trial he usually runs faster than he does in practice which would make this even harder for me. I welcome any suggestions for both dogs.

    https://youtu.be/pkLZnOPmTCM

    • Jennifer Crank says:
      August 20, 2021 at 5:10 pm

      Some great stuff here! I want you to think about your verbals and do some work to clarify them for both you and the pups. There were some inconsistencies and I think it is effecting Toby’s clarity, and therefor, drive.

      Feedback: https://youtu.be/yGP1_vDfUCI

      • Sharon says:
        August 22, 2021 at 1:18 am

        Thank you so much for the informative feed back. I did not know that the cue “in” included making the jump after coming to the handler. I’m glad you pointed that out. That was very helpful. How could I teach that?
        My backside cue is “push” (I learned it during an in-person class I took), and the “around” cue (I thought) was for him to do the 270 sequence from jump 2 to 3. If I use his backside cue “push” for jump 3, should I then cue “left” at jump 2 so he knows I want him to turn or is the handler’s body position and decel alone, his cue to turn? I learned “around” for a 180 turn as well. Do you have a cue for a 180 or 270 sequence turn? I think cue confusion may be one of my biggest problems in handling. I’m not sure what to use or when. It’s confusing for me and Toby.
        Again, I really appreciate the constructive feedback. Thank you.

        • Jennifer Crank says:
          August 26, 2021 at 9:47 am

          For the threadle verbal, I start all of my training at just a barrel and then transition to a single jump. With the dog on one side and the handler on the other, I will release with my verbal (I too use “in) and use my hands in help the dog bypass the jump and then take the jump. I think in your case if you just stop saying “jump” after you’ve said “in”, they will figure it out.

          As for the “around” cue, this is something that I don’t have nor do I think is needed. It is redundant to the “push” cues as almost every 270 is a backside. So I just use my backside verbal in that case. I do not have any unique verbals for 180s or 270s. I also don’t have verbals for soft turns so I would just use body cues on jump 2 without the “left” cue.

          I’m a big believe of quality over quantity when it comes to verbals. I’d rather have a few that my dogs REALLY knows vs a ton that even I can’t keep straight 😉

          • Sharon says:
            August 28, 2021 at 2:09 pm

            Thank you so much for the feed back. I also appreciate your opinion on using too many verbals. I wonder if I’m confusing my dog and myself trying to use more verbals than I can keep straight. Maybe I would have more luck with consistency if I use fewer verbals and work more on my body language. I was tending to go to verbals because I am usually so far behind the dog (at trials) I didn’t know if he could read my body language behind him. I guess a lot of it is timing too.

            Anyway, Thank you so much for all the helpful feedback.

  • Randy says:
    June 5, 2021 at 11:10 pm

    Here’s the Challenge Sequence. https://youtu.be/kqKI7QnBgSU This was a tough challenge for us; it underscored how often I’m late recognizing or anticipating mental/physical commitment. As a result, Option 1 presented problems where I least expected such as the post turn at jump #2. If I didn’t move in time and/or decel sufficiently (as you warned in your analysis) Scout went off course to the 180. For Option 2, I included two camera angles because I wanted to give you a good look at my threadle cue which feels klunky, maybe because I don’t practice it enough. Want feedback on that, if you have any.

  • Sharon says:
    May 1, 2021 at 12:43 pm

    How do you know or decide when to use the cue “around” and when to use “in”. I’m trying to get a better handle on my cues so my dog will know what I’m trying to tell him. I’m also not sure when to use the “check” cue.

    • Jennifer Crank says:
      May 2, 2021 at 9:51 am

      My the dog demoing with here, “around” is his backside cue and “in” is his threadle cue. I don’t have a “check” cue for him.

      For a backside, the handler is between the dog and the jump on approach. In order for the dog to do the jump in the correct direction they must turn TOWARDS the handler. For a threadle, the dog is between the handler and the jump. To get to the correct side of the jump, the dog must turn AWAY from the handler. Does that help?

      • Sharon says:
        May 2, 2021 at 12:00 pm

        Thank you so much. Yes this does help a lot and I will be watching all of the links you sent. I do thought though, that I heard you say “check, check” on the video for Option 1 between jumps 4 and 5. What did you say between those two jumps?

        • Jennifer Crank says:
          May 2, 2021 at 12:46 pm

          You are not the first one to ask this question on this demo. I said “Jack, Jack” as that is his name. I can hear where it sounds like “check, check” when I watched it back to figure out what I did say. I guess it is a good thing I don’t have a “check” cue as that would be a bit confusing for him 😉

          • Sharon says:
            May 2, 2021 at 10:45 pm

            Oh, that makes sense. So how do you decide to say his name instead of calling “around”?

            I have watched the links you recommended and found them very informative. Thank you.

          • Jennifer Crank says:
            May 3, 2021 at 9:14 pm

            He is a rather large dog with a large stride so when he landed off #4 I felt he was already on the takeoff of #5 making it more of a serpentine vs a backside. For a dog who lands tighter off #4, I would have cued “around”. If I was running my 12” sheltie on this demo I do think I would have cued #5 as a backside. It is certainly dog dependent in this situation.

          • Sharon says:
            May 4, 2021 at 2:55 pm

            OK, thanks a lot for explaining that. It makes sense. My dog is small so I need to look for where he lands when we try this sequence. Right now, it’s just too hot outside. He won’t run if it’s hot.

    • Jennifer Crank says:
      May 2, 2021 at 9:53 am

      You can also visit http://www.BadDogAgility.com and use the search bar to type in “backside” or “threadle” for more info. Here are a few good ones:
      https://baddogagility.com/are-you-making-this-big-mistake-on-your-backsides-facebook-live/

      https://baddogagility.com/threadle/

      https://baddogagility.com/serpentine-threadle-backside-drill/

  • Randy says:
    April 27, 2021 at 12:38 am

    In option 1, hat are you saying to your dog between jumps 4 and 5? And on a totally unrelated note of curiosity: what is the square-shaped object on wheels (?) under the A-frame?

    • Jennifer Crank says:
      April 29, 2021 at 4:54 am

      Great questions! Even I wasn’t sure and had to rewatch the video to figure it out 😉 On option 1, I was using his name “Jack, Jack” between 4 and 5. I was using it to aid in the convergence that needed to occur over 5.

      As for the PVC box under the aframe, that is one tool I use for running frames. I use the “box method” as my main method for most dogs who want a running aframe and I just keep the PVC box nearby for training.

  • Carol/Pogo says:
    April 24, 2021 at 3:17 pm

    Here are Pogo’s challenge sequences. I left our mistakes in, so that you could see where we struggle. He didn’t understand the double threadle. So I “showed” it to him. He learns very quickly by “repeating what he did before”. So once I break it down, I can add it back into the full sequence and he will do it correctly. But that isn’t really the same as “understanding” — he would likely make the same mistake again…at a trial. But, I guess that’s a start…and it also shows me what I need to work on. Also: since I edit out the dead time, you don’t see Pogo’s annoying butt scoot. Do you have a good fix for startline scooters? Negative comments to him are not having much effect. Maybe I need to give him chicken for NOT scooting? https://youtu.be/3hLPKeXGwO8

    • Jennifer Crank says:
      April 30, 2021 at 8:36 am

      I totally understand what you mean about patterning vs learning. I think many people get fooled into thinking their dog knows something when they don’t simple because they’ve repeated it enough times.

      I felt many of the handling issues here were timing, not necessarily understanding. Feedback: https://youtu.be/C2XsC4kLsvQ

      As for the SLS, here are a few resources for you: https://baddogagility.com/episode-183-starting-2018-with-start-line-problems/

      https://baddogagility.com/teaching-a-focused-start-line-stay/

      https://baddogagility.com/start-lines/

      • Carol/Pogo says:
        May 1, 2021 at 3:17 pm

        I’m confused about threadles. Pogo can do a threadle-slice using “in in” with a trailing inside arm (jump #5). I noticed though, that if I say “in in” when he needs to threadle-wrap (as he does here on jump 6) he will try to slice. So this made me think “I need a different verbal for threadle-wrap” since he thinks “in in” means slice and I don’t want to confuse him. So I changed my arm and my verbal: threadle wrap uses off-arm and the word “thread”. You commented that threadles at jump 5 and jump 6 should be handled the same. Can you say a bit more about why? Pogo doesn’t think they are the same, so I am following his lead – is he wrong? A related issue: Pogo has no trouble with Push+wrap versus Push+slice (because my motion is different) so I figure I can use the same word for those two. Are we on the right path: two different cues for threadle slice versus threadle wrap, just one cue for push slice and push wrap? Thanks for helping me sort through this!

        • Jennifer Crank says:
          May 2, 2021 at 10:09 am

          Hey Carol! I am sooo glad you asked the question and are seeking clarification on this. It is ABSOLUTELY appropriate, but not necessary, to have two threaded verbals. That was 100% my fault for assuming you only had one. So when I said “they should be cued the same”, I simply meant they should both be cued as threadles. It is very common to have two different verbals and/or different hand cues. I use the same verbal for both but differentiate with arm cues and motion. Keeping with “in, in” and “thread” sounds like a great plan. I’m sorry for the confusion.

  • Barb VE says:
    March 13, 2021 at 12:55 pm

    Hi Jennifer,

    Here are Enzo’s Challenge runs. https://youtu.be/XbN-jAzB4Ts

    Barb

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